Closing the Vehicle Safety Gap: Simple Steps to Protect Your Family in a Car Crash

Todd Tracy: When we did the crash testing at 55 miles an hour, which is a standard speed that rear impacts occur, the third row occupants are dead instantaneously. But what happens here is that the occupants in the third row end up killing the second row occupants because they are being propelled forward, and it becomes like a trash compactor effect.

Travis: Hey there. I'm Travis Patterson, and welcome to Driving Change. Here, you're gonna find unfiltered insights and hard hitting questions that challenge the status quo in law and in life. As a personal injury lawyer in Fort Worth, Texas, I see firsthand how challenges like distracted driving and other just general family safety issues really impact our community every single day,

Travis: But I

Travis: refuse to accept these problems as inevitable. In this podcast, we're gonna dig deep into real world problems, bringing you practical solutions from my experiences in practicing law, raising family, and running my own business. I'm not here to preach to anybody. I'm here to simply ask questions and start conversations that make you think differently and provide you actual advice that you can use right away in your own life. So welcome to Driving Change.

Let's get to it.

Travis: Alright. Welcome to another episode of the Driving Change podcast. Got a good one for you today. Brought in an expert in the field of car safety and crashworthiness, mister Todd Tracy. How are doing today, brother?

Todd Tracy: I'm doing alright. How about you, Travis?

Travis: I'm doing well. Thank you for making the trip to Fort Worth.

Todd Tracy: No problem.

Travis: This is gonna be fun. We're gonna learn a lot. So, Todd, this podcast audience is a mix between lawyers, of course, but a lot of parents. And what I try to do is put up content to make families safer. And so you are an obvious choice for a guest for this podcast.

I went to your presentation a couple weeks ago at Joe T's to the Tarrant County trial lawyers, senior pitch before, always impressed by it, always come away learning a lot that I can apply to my own family and friends, things like that. So wanted to have you on and get into it.

Todd Tracy: Looking forward to it.

Travis: So for those of you that don't know mister Tracy, he's out of Dallas, Texas. He is really the the country's leading expert attorney, in my opinion, on crashworthiness cases. Basically well, I'll let you define crashworthiness, Todd.

Todd Tracy: Well, crashworthiness is is really an engineering phrase, but it it basically means this. How does your vehicle perform when it's involved in a vehicle accident? What are the safety systems, and how do those safety systems perform after an accident happens.

Travis: And and how did you get into this field? Well,

Todd Tracy: years ago, when I was in law school, I worked for a a law firm that defended vehicle manufacturers. And then after law school, I went and worked for another law firm that defended various vehicle manufacturers. But I wanted to be proactive rather than reactive. Right. And so went and worked for a law firm in Dallas, then ultimately formed my own firm over thirty years ago.

Travis: And you have a background in Well,

Todd Tracy: I have a I have a degree in applied physics, which is, you know, you take principles of physics and then you apply principles of engineering to help solve problems. So I I understand the math. I understand the engineering. Yeah. The hardest part about my job is trying to understand the biology because of biomechanics.

Travis: Right. Well, you have a gift. Obviously, it was on demonstration the other day of taking a very complicated engineering term or concept or whatever, and applying it in terms we can all understand. I mean, you've got more metaphors than than just about anybody, and I'm sure we'll hear a few of them today. But you also have a crash lab, which is pretty odd.

You have a lawyer who has his own crash lab, which I think is a warehouse where you just crash vehicles and use dummies and this kind of thing, that kind of stuff you see on TV.

Todd Tracy: Well, we have you know, we're we're fortunate enough to have the wherewithal to, you know, to do a bunch of testing, you know, where we do dynamic testing, we do static testing. But probably the best testing we do at our law firm, we have to farm that out to a company in in Buffalo, New York called Calspan, which is there's only three National Highway Traffic Safety Administration test facilities in the in the country, and we're allowed to use one of them. And then Wichita State University in Wichita, Kansas, they probably have the best sled testing facility in the world. Mhmm. And so we use them exclusively, I mean, up to a 150 times a year.

Travis: Oh, wow. So what is a sled test exactly?

Todd Tracy: Now a sled test is not a it's not a destructive test. What we do is we take a vehicle, and we cut the engine off. We cut the transmission and axles off. That way, we can do repeatable testing. So we'll take we'll take crash test dummies, and we can run them in frontal impacts, we can run them in side impacts, and we can run them on rear impacts.

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: And then we can do repeatable testing over and over and over again when we're trying to work on evaluating a potential defect or evaluating a potential safer alternative design.

Travis: Okay. Because I've seen some of the videos, and these cars get just demolished in these tests.

Todd Tracy: Now on the crash testing, they do. That's it's a one shot deal. So we will do crash testing. We'll do frontal impact, side impacts, and rear impacts

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: Where we have we we conduct vehicle to vehicle crash testing. We do vehicle to barrier testing, and we also do vehicle to moving barrier testing. But they are destructive. They look violent. They are violent.

Right. But so is car accidents.

Travis: Yeah. Absolutely. And I I remember you said the other day, you know, a normal negligence attorney, normal PI attorney, kinda like the work that we do at our firm, we're talking about what caused a wreck, and obviously, the injuries associated with that. What a crashworthiness lawyer looks at is slightly different.

Todd Tracy: It is. Negligence lawyers, they focus on who caused the accident. I could care less who caused the accident. A crashworthiness lawyer focuses on who caused the injuries.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: And I I always equate this distinction between the cause of an accident versus cause of an injury to the Titanic. 04/15/1912, the Titanic went down. Mhmm. Three thousand people ultimately passed away. Did they not a single one of those people that passed away had a broken bone, a bruise, or a cut.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: But two and a half hours later, they were dead. Why? Because there weren't enough safety boats on board. So the engineers, the management company, the owners of the shipping line, they didn't focus on protecting everybody on board.

Travis: Right. Alright. So let's talk about families, because what's cool about your career is you have seen more testing than just about anybody, you've done more cases than just about anybody, Probably tried more cases than anybody. And so you've probably been able to gather just a ton of information that will be active that will actively keep families safer. And so I wanna get into that.

Let's start with families, right, with kids. My contemporaries, you know, I'm about to be 40. You know, me and all my we all have little kids running around everywhere, and so we're hauling kids to school and practice and all stuff all sorts of stuff. So what are the biggest problems you see with just kids and vehicles?

Todd Tracy: Let me break it up like this. First of all, children should never dictate to their parents when they get out of a car seat.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: You know, or a belt positioning booster seat. Parents need to leave their children in car seats and belt positioning boosters as long as they can. Alright? That's the first problem.

Travis: And when you say as long as they can

Todd Tracy: Well, I'm As long as they fit

Travis: in those things or

Todd Tracy: Well, I'm a big believer that forget about the weight and height of a child because you may have some gargantuan parent, and they may only be four or five years old, but the bones of that child are not ready for a crash yet

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: Because they haven't calcified yet. Right. So I'm a big believer that we need to wait we we need to put more emphasis on the age of the child and the strength of their bones. Okay? So that's why you wanna keep them in the car seats as long as you can.

And the car seats being five point harnesses, meaning each shoulder has a has a shoulder a separate shoulder belt. You then have a a lap belt tether in between their in between their legs, and then you have it going across the abdomen. That creates five points. Right. It's it's a racing harness.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: You then wanna make certain that you as you get them out of those, that you then put them into a belt positioning booster because a belt positioning booster raises the child up so that the vehicle seat belt system will fit the child appropriately.

Travis: Yeah.

Todd Tracy: And by that, what I'm talking about is you want the shoulder belt staying off of the neck, and you want it staying centered on the clavicle. It's critical that you do that. Otherwise, they're going if it's if the child doesn't fit in the seat belt properly, the child will they'll misroute the belt. They'll put it under their arm. They'll put it behind their back, and then there's absolutely no safety benefit whatsoever.

In fact, the belt becomes an instrument of harm.

Travis: Right. It can do more harm than good if it's not used. Yeah. So on the the shoulder strap, as these kids get a little bit older, we want it across the chest, not over their neck for obvious reasons. And then the the lap belt, we want that over their top of their legs.

Correct? Not over their stomach.

Todd Tracy: That's correct. And in fact, with the on the car on the car seats, it it's always gonna fit them properly because it's gonna be below the iliac crest, which are those pelvic bones. Okay? As you get them out of as you get them out of car seats and you get them out of booster seats, then what happens when the kids are, you know, nine, 10 years old, they're gonna start sitting in the back seat of the vehicles. And you wanna do that because if the if you've got a if you've got a front airbag and the children weigh over a hundred pounds, then the airbag's gonna fire.

Right. Here's the problem with kids. Here's the problem with kids in the back seat. They have a tendency to slouch. Right.

The reason they do that is because the edge of the seat fits hits them wrong. So when they wanna be able to bend their legs so that it's comfortable for them.

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: Well, if they're sitting completely upright, then their legs are not allowed to sit on the seat properly, so what they end up doing is slouching. The second a child begins to slouch or an adult begins to slouch, that changes the belt geometry. The lap belt goes over the iliac crest, those hard pelvic bones, and gets into the abdomen. The shoulder belt is misrouted, and that's a critical element for safety, is making certain that you that you have the belt routed properly.

Travis: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot there's a lot here. What I see a lot, Todd, is a lot of parents have their cars pretty well set up for their children and the booster seats and all this kind of stuff. A lot of them do, not everybody obviously. But then what happens is you got carpools after school, and you gotta get the kids to practice, and everyone's shuffling around and trying to help each other out.

And it's it's hard, practically speaking, to get the proper car seat in every single car and and do all that kind of stuff. So you see a lot of shortcuts there.

Todd Tracy: Well, and parents don't mean to do it. They you know, parents always wanna do what's best for the children, but they do get in a rush. Yeah. And they will end up putting a child in a vehicle that doesn't have a child seat. They will put them in a belt that doesn't fit them properly.

Right. They will they will double up a belt with the with two kids.

Travis: Oh, jeez. Yeah.

Todd Tracy: You know? And, you know, and then we've got the problem with third row vehicles, which is a major problem that most parents have no idea about.

Travis: Okay. So let's get into this. And this is the scary stuff. Right? And I remember when you first heard this, I went and looked at my cars and made sure we were okay.

But these third row vehicles, not all of them, but some of them are not as strong as others. Correct. So we're for now on, we're gonna assume that your kids are properly in the right car seats or booster seats or maybe they've graduated with that. So let's assume that the child is in proper restraints. So what are the kinds of problems we can still have in vehicles with kids?

Todd Tracy: Absolutely. Okay. So let's just take the basics, for example. Let's say that you let's focus on the front seats for a moment. Right.

If you're you're an adult male and you're at what they call a ninety fifth percentile, so you're six foot two, two hundred and twenty three pounds, You and you have a child. K. You need to not have the child sitting behind that adult that ninety fifth percentile male, the dad. Here's why. If you're involved in a rear impact, the vast majority of seats are going to collapse backwards if you get involved in a rear impact accident because the seats are simply too weak.

You're gonna end up crushing your child. So where do you put the child? Well, if you have a center seat position, knowing full well there's no occupant in front of you, that would be the safest position provided it does have a three point shoulder you know, a lap and shoulder belt combination Now, let's say you've got three kids in the in the second row seat. Here's what you've gotta do. You put the largest kid in the center seat, you put the lightest child behind the heaviest occupant, and then the second then the, you know, the middle child or the second largest child behind the right front passenger, which is typically going to be a female.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: Because in, you know, mom and dads the the dad has a tendency to drive, the mom has a tendency to ride in the right front passenger seat. Why do we do that? Weight you know, the weight of the occupant and the and the crash forces involved are gonna collapse those front seats.

Travis: Yeah.

Todd Tracy: People have no earthly idea that that's happening out there in the real world, and it can be catastrophic.

Travis: How common are seatback failures for ninety fifth percentile?

Todd Tracy: Hundred percent. If you were involved in a delta v of 22

Travis: 22 miles an hour.

Todd Tracy: 22 miles an hour. So two miles an hour faster than a speed than a school zone.

Travis: Right. That's not very fast.

Todd Tracy: The the seat's gonna collapse backwards.

Travis: Alright. So what about if you're under I mean, obviously, I'm sure once you get under it, does it depend manufacturer to manufacturer on how strong their seats are?

Todd Tracy: It does. I mean, we have there are some excellent seats out there that are made by various manufacturers. And not only not only the OEMs, what we call the Right. The your brand names, your GMs, your Fords, your Chrysler's, Toyotas. That's the OEM.

But the seat suppliers, they're the ones that really are the specialists and experts in seat design. You know, we have some excellent ones out there. I mean, we're the way we measure and the way we determine safety for a seat is looking at inch pounds.

Travis: Okay?

Todd Tracy: We have seats that are out there that are 76,000 inch pounds, and we've got seats that are out there right now that are 10,000. I don't know about you. I want the strongest seat Yeah. Sitting in front of my child.

Travis: So yeah. Absolutely. So if you only have one kid, obviously, whoever it is, put them on the other side of the car from the driver if you can.

Todd Tracy: Put them in a, you know, put them in a in a seat where there's no one in front of them. If there is someone in front of them, stick them in the center seat provided there is a lap and shoulder belt combination.

Travis: Right. Okay. But when you have a whole mess of kids and you fill up your car, then you have to obviously make strategic decisions.

Todd Tracy: Well, I joke when I give speeches because it is so serious. I always say, well, always put your neighbor's kids in the seat behind the heaviest one because they're not your loved ones, but obviously, I'm being facetious on that. But you have to you know, parents have to be vigilant every single time they get in a car. Yeah. For example, on these carpools, I seats, when they have child seats in them, they need to be readjusted once a week because the vibration in just normal driving will loosen those seats.

You have to you have to retighten them weekly. You have to make certain that the tethers are retightened. Mhmm. You have to make certain that the shoulder belts are not twisted. You have to make certain that the lap belt's not twisted.

Because if a if a child's shoulder straps and or lap straps are twisted and are folded over, you you can have upwards of nine times greater chance of injury because you're not spreading the load out over the the whole width of the belt.

Travis: Right. Oh, man. My wife is so good at checking for the twisting, and I've been not as good at it. And this is a great reminder. So if you have car seats, just set alarm on your phone once a week to go out there and just take a look at them.

Todd Tracy: You know, make it just make it it's almost like it it almost becomes like breathing.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: Once a month, I'm gonna check them, and you will be amazed at how loose they become.

Travis: Oh, man. That's great advice, Todd. Okay. So you you were hinting at the third row issue. Okay.

So let's talk about third row SUVs.

Todd Tracy: This is a about three years ago, I started looking at these kind of cases, and I'm wondering, where's the testing? Why hasn't the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ever run a test where you've got instrumented crash test dummies in the front seat, instrumented crash test dummies in the second row seat, and instrumented crash test dummies in the third row seat. Then I started going, well, heck. Why aren't the car manufacturers doing this? So I went and did the testing myself because I wanted to see how are these what I'm calling the small and midsize SUVs, and that is if you've got three rows of vehicles and you've got about six inches of space between the third row and the liftgate Right.

Rather than having it like a full sized Denali or Yukon or Suburban Right. Even a Navigator, if if you don't have that space, do not use the third row. Here's why. When we did the crash testing at 55 miles an hour, which is a standard speed that rear impacts occur

Travis: Yeah.

Todd Tracy: It takes the third row those occupants are dead instantaneously. Instantaneously. The third row occupants are

Travis: dead

Todd Tracy: instantaneously. But what happens here is that the occupants in the third row end up killing the second row occupants because they are being propelled forward, and it becomes like a trash compactor effect.

Travis: Gotcha.

Todd Tracy: Now here's the fix. Don't put anybody do not make a vehicle ever again, car industry, that has a third row in it that doesn't have four feet of space. That space is critical. It's not cargo space. That's survival space for the crush.

We need that crush so that we can take care of everybody in the vehicle.

Travis: So okay. Are you talking about every I know the type of car you're talking about, the third row, and there's not a lot of trunk space. I know I saw on your website you've tested the Buick Enclave, the Honda Pilot, the Volvo x c 90. Yes. And I was surprised because you see Volvo, and you're like, okay.

That's supposed to be the the cream of the crop.

Todd Tracy: I had I I routinely brag about the Volvo x c 90. That was a blunder that they made, and I don't know if they truly thought it out, and they and Volvo is typically so great at anticipating problems in the future, but they had to keep up with the market. Right. And third row vehicle sale. But guess what?

If you're doing if there's no utility to it, and I see no utility to a third row vehicle that has six inches of space between it because the risk of of I'm telling you, the risk of serious injury or death far outweighs any utility because the chances of us getting in a rear impact in an urban area like Dallas Fort Worth, Houston, any large city are just too high Yeah. To take a risk on on jeopardizing those third row occupants.

Travis: Are there any of those cars like the Toyota, for example, or are there any other brands that have better steel that can withstand those rear impacts better?

Todd Tracy: Not yet.

Travis: Are you not yet. Not yet. So you're out on all third row midsize SUVs.

Todd Tracy: Small and and midsize SUVs, I'm not a fan because we don't they're not using the right steel. But and what I'm talking about here is the kind of steel that they call ultra high strength steel or extra high strength steel or advanced high strength steel where we study something called megapascals. We figured out the megapascals on how to on how to protect the occupants in the survival space. You know? We've we've got vehicles that have 1,400 megapascals, you know, surrounding our our family.

But then in the but the rear structure, when you've got two hundred and two hundred and thirty or 300 megapascals, you might as well be driving around in a vehicle made of cardboard because it's not gonna prevent crush.

Travis: Okay. So we got third row seats. We got the seat back failures. You mentioned kids slouching. Similar issue, the reclining of the seats.

Todd Tracy: The recline alright. So now this is a this is another bad situation. Kids have a if you've ever had a kid that was a cheerleader or an athlete of any kind or in the band, they they they they work them to death. Right. So what do they do?

They're always trying to find some time to catch some some sleep, to catch a nap. So what do they do? They inevitably get in the vehicle, and they recline that seat back. If you're reclining the seat back more than 45 degrees, that is an absolute recipe for disaster. Alright?

There's number one. Number two

Travis: seat belt your seat

Todd Tracy: belt Well, your seat belt's not gonna do its job. Worthless. Right? It's it's going to if you get hit from the rear and you're and you're beyond 45 degrees, you're gonna get thrown out of the car. Yeah.

That's number one. Number two, if you're in a frontal, you're going to your lap belt is going to you're you're gonna submarine under your lap belt, meaning that lap belt is coming up over your pelvic bones, it's gonna get into your abdomen, and you're going to have a colostomy bag the rest of your life, or you're gonna have a broken back. Mhmm. Or you're gonna cut your head off because you catch your neck on the shoulder belt. Right.

Alright. So imagine you're sitting there and you were and you've got your seat perfectly upright, and you're you were on a long drive on a family trip, and you've got your sibling next to you and you wanna talk to him. What's the first thing we're gonna do? Well, we're gonna reposition ourselves, and we're gonna switch our hips. So we're gonna now be sitting on if you're on the right hand side of the car, you're gonna be leaning up and twisting, and you're gonna be putting most of your weight on your left hip.

Driver's side occupant's gonna be shifted over on their right. Now looking at each other so you can carry on a conversation. Here's the problem. When you do that, it changes the shoulder belt geometry. So instead of hitting you on the clavicle, it's now cutting you into the neck or on the cheek.

What do you do? You're not gonna sit like that for several hours, so you're gonna move the shoulder belt under your arm. Mhmm. The second you do that, you have just destroyed the ability for that seat belt system to do its job, and it's ugly. If you put it under your arm, you will absolutely take out your ribs.

Your ribs are gonna fracture. Your fractured ribs are gonna cut your internal organs. If you put it behind your back and you're involved in a frontal, you were you could theoretically, and it's not theoretically, I've absolutely seen it, where you're you cut your body in half. Mhmm. Jeez.

It's and it's the it's the worst it's the worst thing you've ever seen in your life. Yeah.

Travis: So I hope, you know, if there's one takeaway from this, it's just to use your seat belts, use restraint systems properly.

Todd Tracy: You've got and, you know, and guess what? If it's Easter Sunday and you've got a beautiful dress on, ladies, guys, if you've got your jacket on and you don't wanna and you don't wanna have it wrinkle and everything, don't put your you know, go ahead and have some wrinkles. You know, a wrinkled dress or a wrinkle suit never killed anybody. You may not make the you know, may not be on Vogue magazine's cover, but it's better than being in a morgue.

Travis: Absolutely. Alright. So what's your favorite car for families? Let's say the safest car for families on a and I'm not talking about some $100,000 car, but a family on a budget.

Todd Tracy: I tell you what, I'm still I I love Subaru Crosstrek. I think that they may I think they do it right. They do a lot of things right on the Subaru Crosstrek from a standpoint of their roof structure. I think that's excellent. I believe that the Volvo x c 90 still, if you're looking at the if you're looking at the front row and the second row, I think they overall, I think the the '90, the '60, and the 40 Volvos, I think that

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: They're by far the best and they're most economical. If you I'm not a big fan of any minivans or MPVs, multi passenger vehicles, and I'm not a big fan of pickup trucks. I prefer vehicles that have four doors because they're historically stronger.

Travis: Okay.

Todd Tracy: There are certain manufacturers that I'm not fans of. Not gonna name any names, but they are Japanese in nature. We'll just say that.

Travis: Okay.

Todd Tracy: Okay? There are some excellent domestic vehicle manufacturers here. The the Chevy Traverse, the Buick Enclave, the Buick Encore, they have got a safety system here called a center mounted airbag, and they were the first to do it back in 2013. The problem that we and what that does is that takes care of a phenomena called the far side occupant. So if you get hit on a side impact on the driver Right.

And you're sitting on the passenger side, you don't have an airbag that's gonna protect you unless you have this center mounted bag. The problem that we have here in The US is that the bag is too small. It's coming out of only one seat. So if you if it's not perfectly aligned, meaning the seats are not perfectly aligned or the impact is not a perfect 09:00 or 03:00 direction, you're you're gonna bypass the bag. Right.

And that's why you go to Europe and you look at the European cars. Back in 2020, the European manufacturer started offering tax credits if they started putting center mounted bags in their vehicles, and they they came out of the both the driver's side and the passenger's side, and these are huge bags. I mean, they're bigger than the front they're they're bigger than the right front passenger bag here in The US.

Travis: So okay. So when a when a car manufacturer sells a car in Europe versus in The United States, same manufacturer, same model, is it safer in Europe than it is in The US?

Todd Tracy: It is because they the EEC, the European Economic Community Mhmm. Commission, that is who control you know, that's who controls the vehicle over the vehicle industry over there, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, who we pride ourselves on being the safest, and by far, they are not. Most of our standards in The United States are are inadequate. They are ineffective, and our safety watchdog, which is supposed to be the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the watchdogs end up being lawyers like me. Yeah.

They are feckless, they are ineffective, and they and they don't have a budget left. You know? You have to have money to do crash testing. Yeah. And when you've got a when you've got a sole you know, when you've got a single law firm in Dallas, Texas doing more testing than the NHTSA, Something's wrong with our watchdog.

Travis: Yeah. Well, we're glad obviously, we're all thankful that you were in that space and filling up that void. But, yeah, it's it it just it makes me crazy that the same car could be safer in one part of the world than than here in The United States, and just like, why can't we just make them as safe as possible?

Todd Tracy: Well, everywhere. If I had if I had my choice, there would be one set of unified laws globally, and here's why. First of all, it's gonna save the vehicle manufacturers money. You

Travis: would think so.

Todd Tracy: Think about this. If I've if I have to meet standards in China, Japan, South America, North America, Africa, Europe. Yeah. And yet, oh, Dubai. You know, when I start looking at the cart, when I start looking at all the testing and I see, well, this has gotta meet this one, this gotta meet this one.

Let's make one set of rigid standards that they all have to meet, but let's make them the best. Right. Let's let's have a goal, and the car industry has for years said, we're gonna have a goal that there will be no deaths by a date certain. We can absolutely do that if we had uniform and and unified standards across the globe. It would absolutely save tons of money.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: We don't have that. The car industry, you know, for years, Australia had the Australia and Europe had the most stringent testing standards in the world and performance specifications. The NHTSA has always followed, you know, has always fallen far behind. Because we have standards that were still in place eighteen month that were created eighteen months before Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Oh gosh.

The seat standard that I was telling you about earlier Uh-huh. It was it was adopted eighteen months before Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and has never been revised. And when they drafted it, they forgot to put the weight of an occupant inside the vehicle. In 1967, when it was created, the average seat weighed 20 pounds, and it was 20 g's the weight of a seat. That's 400 pounds.

Folks, that's a parking lot accident.

Travis: Have you ever seen those pictures of people on the beach, like, in 1960, where, like, everyone's pretty in good shape? And now it's like that it's not what Americans look like anymore, and the population's getting heavier and heavier.

Todd Tracy: Interesting you say that, Travis, because the anthropomorphic test dummies that we rely upon in this country and worldwide are based on anthropomorphic test data from 1955. A if you look at a a fifth percentile female in 1955 was five foot two, weighed one hundred and two pounds. A ninety fifth percentile in 1955 was six foot two, two hundred and twenty three pounds. The ninety fifth percentile today is six foot four and a half, two hundred and eighty five pounds. And a and a 90 and a fifth percentile female is five foot four, a hundred and eighteen pounds.

Even worse. Eleven years ago, the car industry in The United States said we have to widen the rear seats because our buttocks, our gluteus maximuses have enlarged so much in The United States that we have to expand the width of the vehicle three inches because if we sell a three a three person vehicle in the rear seat, it has to be a ninety fifth percentile male that can sit in the seats without twisting. It and it's called the designated seating position rule. It makes sense. Mhmm.

The cars had gotten so narrow, one of the one of the test dummies couldn't sit there with with its back up against the seat. So they would twist it. It's asinine. Yeah. Thank God for menjarra.

Maybe we'll become safer. Here's your plug for menjarra.

Travis: Glutamis maximises. First time I've heard that one. I think it's Glutamis Maximai, by the way. Okay. What about used cars?

Okay. If you buy if you buy a used car or or if you if you get in some kind of fender bender and you go get your car repaired or whatever.

Todd Tracy: Alright. Well, let's talk about the used cars first, pre owned. Yep. First of all, parents always think, well, you know, I know my kid's gonna be involved in an accident. I'm gonna go buy them a cheap crappy car for the for their first car.

Biggest mistake parents make. Oh. You need to go buy the best car you can knowing full well between 16 and 25, they're absolutely gonna be involved in an accident. Typically, that's their fault. So you need to make certain that you surround your child with the best vehicle that you can buy that's got the the most bells and whistles.

Okay? Go buy them a Crosstrek. Go buy them a used Volvo x c ninety, sixty, or 40. That's the first thing. Okay?

People always used to say, I'm gonna go buy them the heaviest vehicle known to man because heavier is always better. Right. Well, tell that to 18 wheeler truckers. They're they're driving vehicles. They're they're in vehicles that weigh, you know, 25, 30,000 pounds.

Mhmm. When they get involved in an accident, their their roofs collapse like it's made of paper mache. Right. Just because it's heavier, doesn't mean it's safer. Right.

I've got multiple 1,500, 2,500, 3,500 trucks in our warehouse. And gotta remember, there's totally different standards for the weights of vehicles. Some of them aren't even applicable. Depending if the heavier the vehicle, you think, well, the heavier the vehicle, you're gonna have better safety standards. Not true.

They're not even applicable. Mhmm. So the heavier is not does not necessarily equate to safety at all. Okay. Now I used I remember my dad always used to talking about American steel.

Man, he'd shut the door and say, do you hear that? That's good American steel right there. Then he'd take out the vehicle over here and say, do you hear that? It sounds to me like it's made of tin. Mhmm.

That it's made of aluminum. Well and so some testing was done where they took vehicles from the fifties and they ran them with vehicles from 2020. Guess which one won? The newer vehicles that were lighter weight, that had the new steel, they just kicked the rear they they kicked the the older vehicle's rear. They're just much safer.

So don't don't buy off onto the idea that heavier is better, that larger is better, because one of the safest vehicles in the world for urban driving is a smart car. They're not they're not worth a darn out on the highways because of dirty air. They get behind an 18 wheeler, and an 18 wheeler passes them. It creates turbulence because of their light weight. They it it literally causes them to roll over.

But in an accident in an urban area, they are the safest vehicles I've ever tested. I can't find one that's bad unless you drop it from six feet up in the air, and I actually collapsed one. I collapsed one's roof. But

Travis: that's the same cars don't do great, drop from six feet.

Todd Tracy: There's not a vehicle in the world. The reason we did and we did that test because in the sixties, that was the standard that General Motors met for its vehicles. They would drop them from six feet onto the roof, and they were not allowed to collapse and destroy the survival space. Oh, wow. That was over sixty years ago.

Travis: What happened to that? Well Sorry I got you on a Well,

Todd Tracy: you now this is where the political soapbox comes in. You get depends on the administration that comes in.

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: And certain administrations focus on, you know, safety, some focus on other things, and when you start chipping away at the the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's budget, when you start focusing on other things, then what's the first it's like anything else. The what's the first thing you're gonna get away from when you're a company and you're on the verge of going bankrupt? You get rid of testing. You get rid of engineering. And what do you do?

You focus on styling Mhmm. Because you've got a sale. Focus on cup holders. Focus on cup holders. You focus on bells and whistle items, but you don't focus on the things that actually save people's lives.

Travis: Yeah. Alright. So going back to Alright. Now, pre owned. Buying a used car for you.

Pre owned. Pre owned.

Todd Tracy: Alright. So pre owned, you know, you you buy you you get yourself a Crosstrek. You you get yourself a Volvo. You you make certain that you do not trust the CARFAX. Hate to say that, but they're just not accurate.

You take you take a vehicle and you take it to a certified dealer and you put them up on the rack and you look and see, has this vehicle been repaired? And you can tell real quick if it's been repaired. If you see if you see splices on the frame, if you see welding on the frame, if you see overspray, walk away. Okay? Because here's the here's what happens, which takes us into this idea about vehicles and repairs.

Okay? I tried to I tried to get a law passed in Texas the last four sessions that said this, if you are a a vehicle repair facility in the state of Texas and you can prove that you followed the original equipment manufacturer's repair specifications and you used original equipment parts

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: And then there was an accident and somebody died or was seriously injured, you could not you were immune from liability as they should be.

Travis: But if you cheat, you're not.

Todd Tracy: If you cheat, then you ought to get you you ought to get hanged. Right. Okay? Now here's how here's what happens. But there's you know, the I will tell you, the repair shops, they absolutely wanna use OEM repair specification.

The the Fords and GMs and Crashers and Toyotas, they give these tell everybody they give them 40 pages of repair specifications, say, do this, do this, do this, do this. And that's the only way you're gonna restore this vehicle back to safety.

Travis: OEM. So if you if you bring in a Ford to the collision shop, they use Ford parts and the Ford process.

Todd Tracy: And it's got to be Ford OEM parts. Dude, I'm a big I did a series of tests after a case called Siebuchon versus Sean Eagle because there was some issues regarding the roof.

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: A hailstorm had had come through Dallas Fort Worth, and there was a Honda Fit, and the hail had destroyed the roof.

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: They took it to a repair facility, and the and the OEM repair specifications was the following. You have to replace the roof panels with spot welds, 234 of them, in fact.

Travis: Spot weld meaning?

Todd Tracy: A weld? Yeah. That so there's 234 on that circumnavigate the entire roof. So that roof that roof is not coming off. Right.

Well, there was a cheaper way to do it that was quicker called glue. Oh gosh. So they glued this roof on with a with an adhesive. It was involved in a frontal impact, and the roof panel flew off. Well, the roof panel is sorta like the whenever you build a house, well, you've got the frame set up, but what makes that house structurally sound is when you come in there with the, you know, with the plywood Mhmm.

And you put it on, that keeps it from that keeps it from twisting. It keeps it from, you know, turning in, turning out, and that didn't do that. And that roof looked like an accordion because it lost all of its structural integrity. Well, we we get into this thing and, you know, Honda says, where's the 234 spot welds? Because there were none because they glued it.

So Honda said,

Travis: Honda said, this one's not on us. You need to go talk to their repair shop. They

Todd Tracy: certainly did, but they didn't say it that nicely.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: I can absolutely because, you know, we were sitting I have never in my life seen something like that before. So we we start getting into it and we realize, my god, they've replaced this thing, and then we realize the reason they had done it that way is because of pressure. Pressure from an insurance company. It's cheaper for us because they can get them in, they can get them out, you have the labor aspects of this, and we can get you in and out quicker. So you have got to make certain when somebody gets involved in an accident that you take it to a certified if you've got a Mercedes Benz, take it to a Mercedes Benz dealer.

Do not take it to these know, I'm not gonna name any name because I don't wanna get I don't wanna get sued, but you don't you don't take it to these shops that you know for a fact that that you're getting steered to because that's against the law. Absolutely. Your insurance company cannot tell you where to take your car. If you have a Mercedes, by God, you're you you get the you have the right to take it to a Mercedes, Ford, Christ, or whatever it may be. You have the right to do it because they had the repair specifications and they have the parts.

Here's what's gonna happen. They're gonna try to steer you to some other company that's not gonna fall they're gonna follow another set of regulations and or repair specifications. There's number one. But then they're gonna try to use these, you know, these parts that are not necessarily OEM parts.

Travis: Mhmm.

Todd Tracy: They're close, but not completely there. How do I know? I did the testing. I went and ran OEM parts. I ran salvaged parts, and I ran these things called LKQ, like, kind, and quality.

Like, kind, and they may look the same, but they don't act the same when involved in a crash. Mhmm. And what we're trying to do is restore it back to crash back to its original equipment manufacturer's capabilities. But if you wanna know the truth, the way the new cars are made these days, if a vehicle's bad enough where all of the airbags fire, the car needs to be totaled.

Travis: Wow.

Todd Tracy: Which is another good tip for you to pass on to your parents. Fight. Fight. Fight your insurance your insurance company saying, every time I'm involved in an accident, I want the car totaled.

Travis: Because even if it's repaired to the OEM standards, it's not gonna have the same crashworthiness.

Todd Tracy: It's never gonna be the same, and here's why. You certain cars, the way the the way the steel is made, these with these high megapascals, you know, anything above 750, you cannot rip you can't repair

Travis: it. Yeah.

Todd Tracy: It can't be stretched. You can't put wells on it. You can't put patches on it. And so what happens here is you take it to some you take it to some non dealer. They're gonna go stretch the hell out of that thing and basically have, you know, vehicle yoga done to this thing, and they're gonna stretch it.

They're gonna you know, they're they're going to Frankenstein that vehicle, and it's never gonna be the same, and your and it's your family that's gonna pay the price. Yeah. It will not crush the same. It will it will crush where it's not supposed to. And these cars are you know, there's a lot of engineering that goes involved in these cars.

You know? When you look at a frame of a car, people are going, I wonder why there's a circle there. I wonder why there's it's shaped like a triangle or shaped like a square or shaped like a rectangle. Those are called convolts. And basically, those are crush.

They will crush in a certain they will crush with certain levels of energy. Well, you go in there and you put a patch over that, that's a problem. It's not gonna crush the same. So you may you now may be imparting energy into the survival space where you're not supposed to.

Travis: The crush is designed to absorb the energy.

Todd Tracy: Spread it out and you're not.

Travis: So so that's new cars. So if there's a used car and you and you know that it's been in a collision before, but you can verify that it was repaired up to standards, is would that be okay, or are you still, like, hitting on a goes to try to find something that hasn't been in a credit?

Todd Tracy: Well, I think it's okay if it's purely cosmetic. So that's when you get your CARFAX because they're the CARFAXes are pretty good about some of the issues about know, we look at when we look at a CARFAX, I wanna see where it was sold initially. If you've got a vehicle that's sold, let's say, in a different state other than Texas, you wanna and then all of a sudden it comes to Texas, you wanna start tracking it now. Why? Yeah.

It may have a salvage title from that other state that's not gonna transfer to Texas. You need to make and you wanna and if it's and if you ever see the word auction on a vehicle, you run. That's because it was it was involved in a major crash. It was sold at auction, given a salvage title to the insurance company. Insurance company then sells it at auction to someone else who comes to another state.

Now it's got a clean title. That's why you always do a title history on the vehicle identification number.

Travis: Great advice.

Todd Tracy: Do we have to do some homework? Yes. Is it worth it when our children are driving it? Absolutely. But, you know, if you can't afford a brand new car, that's what you gotta do.

Travis: Gotcha. Alright. Let's talk to the lawyers real quick, Todd. If you get a case, you're trying to help a family out. Obviously, common scenario that I see just about every single day is that there's not enough insurance to to handle the the injuries involved.

That's why I'm a huge proponent, obviously, of UIM insurance umbrella coverage that covers UIM. I know you know all this stuff too. One of the issues is just people think that this stuff won't ever happen to them, so they don't really listen. But for the lawyers out there, how do you know when you have one of these auto products cases where they need to call you and say, hey, have you tested this before? What are your thoughts on this?

Todd Tracy: I always tell people this. If you have a client that comes into your office and there is a death, quadriplegia, paraplegia, catastrophic brain injury, and you do not have enough insurance or no insurance, it's a single vehicle accident, there may be no insurance involved. Alright?

Travis: Oh,

Todd Tracy: yeah. Then you have to start asking yourself our question, what are my recovery options to help out my client?

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: Okay? That's why I'm a big proponent of never settling a case with somebody that's catastrophically injured or dead until you've done some discovery. Because you may have a dram shop case. You may have a commercial vehicle case.

Travis: Yeah. They might be on they might be on the job.

Todd Tracy: Right. Right. You may have a crashworthiness case. So here's what I tell people. Catastrophic injury or death, you need to forget about doing what's expedient Right.

And doing what's quick.

Travis: There's no pre suit settlements for this.

Todd Tracy: You have an absolute obligation to do the best you can and to zealously represent your client. So go out there and ask some questions. Okay? How did the vehicle perform? If there's four people in the vehicle and only one person's dead, where were they sitting relative to where the crash was?

Maybe they were sitting right where the crash zone was. If they're sitting farther away, why'd they die? Maybe the seat belt didn't do its job. Maybe they had it on wrong. I don't know.

But let's Yeah. Let's do some engineering analysis. If you don't wanna go do it, there's lots of good lawyers out there that know how to do this, but I am a firm proponent of this. I think any lawyer that's worth his salt that can pass the bar Mhmm. Is absolutely capable of doing these kind of cases.

You have to put the blood, the sweat, and the tears in it. Yep. And, you know, to do that, you know, you've gotta ask some questions like we used to when we were in law school.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: You know, we were so entrenched in this idea about always thinking outside the box, and that's all crashworthiness is, is how did the vehicle perform relative to everyone else in the vehicle?

Travis: So don't just rely on ChatGPT, but actually use your brain and think through it?

Todd Tracy: You know, I keep I I bet I get 10 calls a week on on ChatGPT and and these AI stuff, and I said, I don't want it any anywhere in my office because people hire me because of me, not because of AI. And not only that, but AI doesn't understand what I do for a living.

Travis: And if you ever gotten an email from Todd Tracy, you know damn well that AI did not write it. Came from the the lips of Todd.

Todd Tracy: There's usually yeah. And I've done a good job today not having any obscenities because parents could be watching today, and they including my mom. I wanna make certain Yeah.

Travis: You've done a good job. Alright. I'm gonna do some a couple rapid fire questions for you, and then I'll get you out of here. You ready? Take a swig of water.

I'm absolutely ready. Alright. Most common vehicle defect that you see, and what can parents do about it?

Todd Tracy: Seat back collapse cases and rear impacts. And what what can parents do about it? You know, pray that you're not involved in a rear impact crash that's of a delta v, and or don't be too heavy. It's sad. If you if you are over a hundred and seventy five pounds and you get hit in a 30 mile an hour accident from the rear, you're gonna your seat's gonna collapse on the vast majority of vehicles.

Travis: Okay. You said earlier, you said a 100% if you're over two hundred and

Todd Tracy: It's 100%. If you're over two hundred and twenty three pounds and you're involved in a 22 delta v, you're absolutely gonna your seat's gonna collapse.

Travis: Okay. But for a hundred and seventy five pounder

Todd Tracy: You got more of a chance, and the reason I put a hundred and seventy five pounds, that's the fiftieth percentile male. Right. So and that's what the car industry designs its vehicles to, the fiftieth percentile male.

Travis: Okay. Paul, my producer, is trying to get me down a 175 pounds, so this is good motivation. Both of you guys are helping

Todd Tracy: me out. I'm trying to say look at this. We're trying to save your life for different reasons. Maybe maybe maybe because the camera puts on 15 pounds. I'm just trying to save your life in general.

Travis: Three cameras on me. Alright. I think you've already answered this. Safest car for family on a budget. You talk about a

Todd Tracy: I love I love Subaru Crosst reks. I love Volvo '90 sixties and four the the XC ninety sixty and forty. I think they're great vehicles.

Travis: And what about families that need the third row? Suburban.

Todd Tracy: Third third row, you better get yourself a full size full size suburban, Tahoe, Denali, Yukon, Expedition. Right. You've gotta have something that's got a minimum of four feet behind the third row.

Travis: I might have to go buy a new car after this episode. Thanks a lot, Todd.

Todd Tracy: I'm just trying to help the economy as much as we can. We need all the help we can get.

Travis: Alright. What's one thing every parent should check on their car today?

Todd Tracy: Make certain that they that none of the seat belts are ever twisted. If if they are twisted and and they are not hanging you know, when they when they're stowed, the seat belt should be flat. It should never have a twist in it. If you were wearing a belt that's twisted, it's gonna degrade the capability upwards of 300%.

Travis: If you were king and could mandate one safety feature today, what would it be?

Todd Tracy: Put center mounted bags in every in both seats and out of the roof in the in the second and third row.

Travis: Do you think self driving cars will be here soon?

Todd Tracy: I sure hope not. Because I first of all, I would never get in one, but I will not folk I will not endorse autonomous driving vehicles until I have a cell phone and or a remote control that can be dropped in water and work after that. Mhmm. We're not ready for prime time, haven't been ready for prime time. The car manufacturers know we're not ready for prime time.

The reason autonomous driving vehicles are out there is because Wall Street's pushing them, not the car industry.

Travis: Because you see the taxis or, you know, whatever you call them, not neighbors, but These Waymo. Waymo. Town.

Todd Tracy: Interesting story about Waymo. I'm over at the Range Rover dealership the other day, and there's two Waymos in there, and they go, oh, by the way, they've they're they're in here because they crashed because they stopped receiving a signal. Oh, and the signal was coming from single from Indochina. What? The signal that they were receiving that whenever whenever it's receiving the information was coming from Indochina and by the way, they don't speak English over there, so there was a lag in reading and understanding and interpreting and translating all of the signage.

Yeah. I'm out. Don't get in a vehicle that doesn't have a driver. Hell, even if the driver's distracted, at least you've got a driver in the car.

Travis: Yeah. I mean, because you hear people who are real techy. They're like, say, oh, well, drivers are the one that calls 9099% of the problems and all that kind of stuff, and so this takes the driver out of it, but do you really trust the technology?

Todd Tracy: Well, I always look at it like this. Well, we also have on our planes. Right. You know? We've got, you know, we we have autopilot.

Right. We don't But guess what? Autopilot does not take off and land. Right. We leave it to the experts because there are too many other variables that you want to have, you know, you you wanna have the institutional knowledge and the expertise from a human at the end of the day.

Yep.

Travis: What keeps you up at night when you think about vehicle safety?

Todd Tracy: I worry that the front line are the lawyers and not the agencies and not the car industry, because the car industry absolutely has the car industry has the absolute capability to eliminate all this. These those engineers can do it, but here's the problem. The CEOs and the executives at the companies are too concerned about Wall Street dictating to them, well, you've gotta do well during the next quarter or during the next quarter. Yeah. They need to get away from that mentality and focus on where are we in the next year, the next three years, the next five years because profits will come if you provide a good, safe, reliable product.

And who cares if you have 18% profits if if we stay at 12% profit every year rather than having the dips, you know, the the the the peaks and the valleys? Because what's killing the car industry are the recalls. I mean, year after year after year, more vehicles are recalled than are sold every year.

Travis: Wow.

Todd Tracy: That's frightening to me.

Travis: So if they can just look beyond the next quarter's profits, then they can actually start solving this problem.

Todd Tracy: Wall Street needs to get out of the vehicle safety business.

Travis: Right.

Todd Tracy: And they need to let need to let the engineers do it, and and engineers and marketing need to get in the same room together and say, we can build a vehicle that's safe but also looks cool, Instead of, you know, they don't even talk anymore. Yeah. That's just wrong.

Travis: Yeah. That's terrible. Well, Todd, I was at a conference when I was a baby lawyer trucking conference actually in Nashville. And I remember, I think it was Joe Fried, one of the founding guys of of that group, said, you know, just one takeaway I want you all to to remember. If you do your job right as trial lawyers, you you'll never really know how many lives you save, and that stuck with me probably more than anything else I've ever heard at a CLE.

Maybe aside from you blowing up airbags and stuff, five feet from me. But that stuck with me, and when I think about that type of lawyer who saves lives, you're one of the first guys that come to mind. Not just what you've done for your clients, but what you've done for the auto industry, making cars safer. I I know based on all the evidence, and I and I truly believe it, that cars are safer today largely because of the work that you've done over your entire career. So thank you on behalf of all of us, my behalf, parents everywhere in our community.

I think guys like you and guys like you do make our world safer. So kudos to you, and thanks for coming on.

Todd Tracy: Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for the for the compliment.

Travis: Alright, man. We'll see you. Thanks. Goodbye.

Travis: If you like today's episode, please subscribe to the podcast, and don't forget to leave us a review. It really does help us get the word out. As we dive into these important conversations about safety and about community, I'm reminded of why I became a personal injury lawyer in the first place. Every single day, I see people whose lives have been turned upside down because of some accident in one form or another. It's a confusing and overwhelming time, and it can feel impossible for folks to know where to turn.

If you or someone you love have been in an accident like that and you need honest guidance, give us a call. We'll get to know you, get to

Travis: know your story, and we

Travis: will be with you every step of the way. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.